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Zero Suspension Geometry Starting Point
July 11, 2017
1:37 pm
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WallerZero
Coventry
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Hi all,

Has anyone got any generic starting points for the suspension geometry for the Zero? I'm finally looking at dialling in the handling and wondering what the best place to start is?

I'm currently looking at 1.5deg negative camber and maybe 0.5 to 1deg of toe out as a simple starting point as I believe the rear is fixed and so is castor on the front.

Thanks,

Mazda Zero 2.5L KLDE V6
Registered: March 2014.
Build Blog: http://zachsgbszero.blogspot.co.uk/

July 11, 2017
6:58 pm
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nelmo
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No expert but I didn't think you wanted any toe-out? Either straight or small toe-in, no?

July 11, 2017
9:41 pm
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Simon
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I must agree with Nelmo on track.

I think Zack has a Mazda kit, am I right? If so, there is a camber kit for the rear.

The Mazda is, "different", to the Ford. Please be careful that advice is for your vehicle. You also have a V6, which, as far as I know, was not planned for the chassis, and may require some unique settings. This will be a case of trial and error.

More than willing to help where I can.

July 11, 2017
10:29 pm
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nelmo
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July 12, 2017
9:38 am
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WallerZero
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Indeed, Mazda kit with a 2.5 V6 from a Mazda MX6 😀 it sits further back than the 4 pot and also (thanks to aluminium heads and block) is claimed to be lighter?! So centre of gravity is sat further back in the car. Definitely not designed for the chassis but does fit 😛 lol

Yeah fully expecting trial and error, but paying for a proper readout and setting I was wondering about a starting point from factory settings as a starting point before tinkering myself with a few measured adjustments here and there. Tbh it does all come down to personal preference and the car's built in balance.

Toe in will aid straight line high speed stability, toe out will aid turn in and handling. So its a trade off between the two there. Equally, toe in can induce understeer whereas toe out can induce oversteer (think thats the same or has more effect on the rear).

I'm looking to do more track days and more interested in a positive handling experience hence the starting at toe out. Production cars tend to select toe in with sportier cars only using around 0.1/0.2deg toe in, however the manufacturers prefer understeer due to the severe lack of driver training or even knowledge in oversteer scenarios of the general public. On the other hand, I know the Caterham Academy cars allow a maximum of 1.5deg toe out in their regulations, hence looking at 0.5 to 1deg (although probably starting with 0.5 as a starting point rather than 1deg and pulling it back in). As such I'm looking for a comfortable experience at 70-80mph straight line driving but with the focus being on cornering and handling. As you start hitting a ton, aerodynamics start taking over with our brick shaped automobiles lol.

Cheers,

Mazda Zero 2.5L KLDE V6
Registered: March 2014.
Build Blog: http://zachsgbszero.blogspot.co.uk/

July 12, 2017
1:59 pm
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Simon
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I can see that someone has been doing some homework, but I fear you may be falling into the information trap I have seen so many times. Confused

unfortunately I am at work at the moment, everyone has to, so a more detailed answer will have to wait, but I can run through some ways forward if you wish this evening, a cunning plan perhaps, less the turnip, if you are a Black Adder fan. Smile

July 13, 2017
10:52 am
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WallerZero
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Haha in regards of applying knowledge from work at JLR to a kit car I'm preping for track use, clearly even with the Jag F-Pace being tilted towards driving dynamics, applying mass production to the public and its associated safety factors is not as straightforward. As said, everything comes down to personal preference via trail and error, hence looking for a factory starting point or consistent positive feedback for a range 🙂

Ah its no rush! I'm not due to look at tracking until after my rolling road on the 22nd so plenty of time 🙂 Gives me more time to read up on kit specific geometry and some of the links Nelmo posted.

Sorry to say it Simon, but you're showing your age there 😉 haha. Whilst I know of Black Adder, its still a fair bit before my time 😛 lol

Mazda Zero 2.5L KLDE V6
Registered: March 2014.
Build Blog: http://zachsgbszero.blogspot.co.uk/

July 13, 2017
11:27 am
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nelmo
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WallerZero said

Sorry to say it Simon, but you're showing your age there 😉 haha. Whilst I know of Black Adder, its still a fair bit before my time 😛 lol  

You should get watching - one of the best things UK TV has ever produced. So good that the last episode of the last series was shown to my 13 year-old son in school as part of his history lesson...

July 13, 2017
1:32 pm
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Simon
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That episode, was/is a classic.

I'm with Nelmo.

July 14, 2017
2:04 pm
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WallerZero
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Sounds like you both need to spend less time in the garage and out watching some proper TV 😛

Mazda Zero 2.5L KLDE V6
Registered: March 2014.
Build Blog: http://zachsgbszero.blogspot.co.uk/

July 14, 2017
11:58 pm
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Foxtrottransit
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I've been watching some of those documentaries about Americans and can highly recommend them. You know the ones family guy and Simpsons. Only kidding I'm just a big child at heart.

July 15, 2017
12:26 am
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Marlin
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Watch out, you are talking about my cell mates there. Laugh Oh, perhaps you must be speaking of Central or South Americans?
Don't forget about Futurama and going high tech up to Pixar level.Wink
Finally an off course thread. Figures it would be based on suspension geometry. Cool
Aren't all car builder big children at heart? After all we still play with cars and blocks albeit engine blocks.Smile

Have a great weekend of building ALL.
Marlin

Zero GT Mazda(1.8LVVT) ordered Nov 9 '15, arrived Apr 15 '16,

July 15, 2017
8:59 am
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Foxtrottransit
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Life just wouldn't be worth living without Seth MacFarlane. He makes me want to die in the wild west. Very entertaining.

July 21, 2017
1:29 pm
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Simon
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back to subject in hand, that's the less interesting subject of the suspension.

Zack. I would start with ride height

when that is right, record ALL the settings for both front and rear, track and camber.

I would then get them all to Zero, pun not intended.

this may take some posting or emails I am sure. Cool

I also have a calculator for suspension on a web site somewhere, we may be able to use that.

July 24, 2017
9:45 am
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WallerZero
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Yep, Ride height is currently set happily with the 10mm difference in rake at about 110mm front and 120 rear. Just enough to get over my local speed bumps safely lol.

Without the kit you said about, I believe the toe/camber at the rear is fixed for the Zero so that should be fine.

The front I will be looking at around -1.5deg of camber and set the toe to 0 as a starting point. This means I then have some tuning to play with on personal preference in regards to both toe and camber, ideally not shredding my fronts in the process!

Anyway, this has been put back again as I've managed to crack my oil pump housing so came very close to seizing my engine on the rollers CryCry give me a week, I knew I bought 2 engines for a reason LaughLaugh

Mazda Zero 2.5L KLDE V6
Registered: March 2014.
Build Blog: http://zachsgbszero.blogspot.co.uk/

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