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Emerald re map?
February 26, 2015
5:36 pm
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Andi
Leicester
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Hi,
having the zetec 2l, emerald power map and gbs plenum, would it be unlikely to squeeze any more horses out of it
with a remap/rolling road?
As i know that, time at emerald for instance costs the earth.

Andi

February 26, 2015
10:43 pm
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Simon
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unlikely, those that have remapped usually got within ball park of GBS map, difference that can be put down to other factors rather than the map itself.

February 27, 2015
6:43 pm
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Chris
South Wales /Valleys
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Don't think you get any more ponies form it ,Had mine on the GBS power map for a year then went and had rolling road locally and was all ok apart from a little bit of over fueling mid range and a few tweaks here and there .
.Back in december last year i made the decision to take the 5 hour drive each way and take it up to dav and john at emerald to have 3 maps installed.
Have to say well worth the money car went on the rollers at 9 am and come off them at 3.30 pm how different the car is now so smooth though the gears and the Bang and popping flame throwing map is ok as well .
Dav recommended to change the fuel injectors to get more power than the 176bhp as the standard ones are maxing out and turn fuel pressure up to 3.5 bar . but i don't see the point for 2-3 more ponies

Have to say if your going to Emerald you will not be disappointed with the welcome from all staff and help they give you also you get to stay with your car when its all being done and they explain everything to you not like some rolling road s .

unable to upload video or photos of trip

February 27, 2015
7:14 pm
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RichardL
Maidstone, Kent, UK
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Hi Chris,
Can you elaborate on your 3 maps and the differences?
Presumably one is power - similar to the GBS default, and one economy?

do you see feel significant differences in driving/fuel consumption etc

Cheers

Zero GT: On the road Summer 2013. Experience: 1x Amateur build Zero. Build Diary: Richard's GBS Zero

February 27, 2015
7:45 pm
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Chris
South Wales /Valleys
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Hi Rich

Yes m8 one power map and eco map for fuel economy .the eco map only comes into play when the car is below 4000 rpm as belowe 4000 rpm its around the 14.7-1 afr after that goes back on to the power map setting s which is set at around 12.5-1 afr as does the popping and bag map .

Haven't had the weather to test MPG on eco map but as for the drive its so smooth .
My brother has a zero as well with the same set up as mine but on the GBS power map and he has driven it last weekend and was very surprised how smooth it is and how responsive it is on the power map he is thinking on a trip up to emerald now as well .
As i said in my last post been on rolling road locally and did not drive like it does now .

The GBS Power Map is ok if you want to spend the money and time on rolling road then i say go up and see john and dav every car is different

February 28, 2015
1:29 am
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Simon
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I must agree, every car is different, but so are the conditions that it is used in.

In the "standard" set-up there is little info going back to the ECU as to how it is performing, it is simply working from the map.

If revs=x and throttle=y do z. Simple and not very intuitive.

The GBS map was built for headlines, BHP and torque, it was not meant for economy or drive ability, and on throttle bodies particularly it can be harsh. but in this world you do not get something for nothing, changing the map will have a positive effect on one thing, but a negative effect elsewhere.

BHP may be similar, but do the torque graphs compare? you will never know without back to back comparisons.

The GBS maps were all produced on the same day, on the same engine, at Emerald, a fairly low lying part of the country, in July 2011. Take any of the maps and run the vehicle across the Pennines, and it will not be at its optimum, the Alps? Wet weather, dry weather, cold, hot they all will have an effect on engine tune as the ECU has no way of knowing that the conditions it is mapped for have changed.

For example, I test a car going for IVA in the morning of the test, it passes on our machine, that afternoon at the test centre, barley 15 miles away, it may not. why?

Because the conditions may have changed, and the map is still doing its sum as if it was at the factory.

February 28, 2015
7:26 am
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RichardL
Maidstone, Kent, UK
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Thanks Chris, Simon

Have to say the GBS Power map - default I run on day to day is smooth too on the Plenum setup; no complaints after 5k miles & runs roughly 30mpg when cruising - road use only so not really hitting the edges of the map.
Just interested in the options for tweaking things, and of course I don't have anything to compare against.

I'm leaving well alone until after the first MOT in summer 2016, depending what happens then it may be the excuse to do something different.

Might have another go at cold start settings - mine starts fine but needs a little welly to keep it going for 10secs, so suspect just needs a tweak on the initial prime and/or water temp compensation - its being in the mood to fiddle with the car for cold start when its cold outside :)

Zero GT: On the road Summer 2013. Experience: 1x Amateur build Zero. Build Diary: Richard's GBS Zero

February 28, 2015
8:01 am
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Chris
South Wales /Valleys
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Rich

The only reason i went all that way to emerald to have the car mapped by the person that makes that ecu and knows it well after taking it to locally rolling road twice and not 100% happy with the running of car as my cat was totally burned out due to running lean at high revs .Found this out when trying to get car MOT last year had maps from GBS also maps from emerald to try and get mot passed but then found the problem CAT gone . Got MOT passed emissions after with a little help from a fiesta if you know what i meanWink .
Simon was talking with Dav about the time GBS tock the zero up there for the power map for the Plenum and throttle bodies on how you were trying different things to get max power out of the zetec they still have that map on there system.
Before they started mapping my car they run it on the GBS map and the Map i had done locally in wales as they were already programed on the ECU they were both ok but will need tweaking due to over fueling in some point and running very lean in others .
So new base map installed and started from scratch .
Dav commented No 2 maps will run the same on the same set up car every car he has done has never had the same setting on every load site always has to tweak them a little bit but never to far away .
Car going back to rolling road in wales on next dry day as they know that i was taking it to emerald to see how it runs now in wales this was all set up before going to emerald for comparison on conditions . in wales .

A good bit of info on the emerald ecu and how mapping works open loop and closed loop can be found on the emerald site under knowledge-zone.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/arti.....edge-zone/

http://i23.photobucket.com/alb.....AG1579.jpg

February 28, 2015
11:24 am
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Andi
Leicester
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Might have another go at cold start settings - mine starts fine but needs a little welly to keep it going for 10secs, so suspect just needs a tweak on the initial prime and/or water temp compensation - its being in the mood to fiddle with the car for cold start when its cold outside....

Know exactly what you mean about the cold.
Mine is very difficult to start in the cold. Reminds me of all the early morning cold starts, up and down the street in the late 1970`s.
Once its started though, it`s fine for the rest of the day.

Andi

February 28, 2015
11:33 am
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Simon
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there is another way of doing this, but it involves some changes to the system and adds a bit of complexity, but emerald is able to tune itself, and continualy change the map to suit all conditions.

Possibly another topic at another time Smile

February 28, 2015
12:35 pm
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RichardL
Maidstone, Kent, UK
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Wideband... I'll be back for that conversation in June 2016... after my first MOT !

Zero GT: On the road Summer 2013. Experience: 1x Amateur build Zero. Build Diary: Richard's GBS Zero

February 28, 2015
5:34 pm
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Paul94
Stafford
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Coincidentally mine is booked in at Emerald on the 12th. Need the firmware updated in the ECU for my latest project and decided to have a 3 way switch and 3 maps done at the same time.
I will report back if/what differences I find

February 28, 2015
10:04 pm
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Graterham
Wetzlar Germany
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Now you are talking my language!
Why did I assume that everybody has Widebody AFR and a 3-way switch for Emerald,
and that the self-adjusting function of the Emerald was always keeping up with the changes.
As I follow these blogs I see ruined CAT's, varying rich and lean events, poor cold starts etc.
Why couldn't we just be satisfied with wind in the hair? Perhaps men are never happy unless fiddling!

All my reading (no practical yet) indicated that these changes were the way to go.
So I bought a '14point7' exhaust/O2 sensor with control unit and display to be ready.
Two guys I have met, RichardL and Paul94, can be the first to borrow it for evaluation.
I will be following the theme 'popping and banging flamethrowing' setting and want it too!!
Let's hear it Chris!

Now I must go and study RichardL's blog to find out how to wire the ECU...... G

Zero Seven......Greater than a Cater

March 2, 2015
7:00 pm
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Chris
South Wales /Valleys
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March 4, 2015
10:49 am
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greengrass
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Hi chaps could i just ask what sort of price it is for a day at emerrald ? im likeing the sound of this flame throwing setting ?

March 4, 2015
9:15 pm
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Chris
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greengrass said

Hi chaps could i just ask what sort of price it is for a day at emerrald ? im likeing the sound of this flame throwing setting ?

Green grass your looking at around £325.00+vat .But cash is king if you know what I mean .you pay for the full day on rollers even if car only takes 2 hours or 8 price the same so they don't believe in booking 2 cars in for full set up on the same day Pop and bang map set up:

March 13, 2015
9:43 pm
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Andi
Leicester
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Paul94 said

Coincidentally mine is booked in at Emerald on the 12th. Need the firmware updated in the ECU for my latest project and decided to have a 3 way switch and 3 maps done at the same time.
I will report back if/what differences I find

Hi Paul,
How did it go??

Andi

March 14, 2015
8:25 am
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RichardL
Maidstone, Kent, UK
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Looks like Paul already blogged about it: http://paul94-gbs-zero-build.b.....pping.html

Zero GT: On the road Summer 2013. Experience: 1x Amateur build Zero. Build Diary: Richard's GBS Zero

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